Sobriety and Fun

Carly OsmanSo firstly, before we dive in and uncover the world of sobriety, who are you?

HelenYeah Okay, I'm Helen Masters and I am the founder and CEO of Sober AF Dating. which is a platform both in real life and an app that soon will very imminently to be released for people that are navigating their sober era and no and low era. And they're just drink very occasionally era and trying to dispel that let's grab a drink when we meet vibe. So that is the business. We have also a collection. So brave collections. We've got more things coming. The podcast is also about to go live and we have, a few other things under the sober AF umbrella that will soon come to light. But yeah, we're just a space, a space for people that are like-minded in our community that aren't necessarily alcoholics, but ex-alcoholics more than welcome. And a safe space for anybody that wants to have fun and join us in disrupting this whole sober equals boring narrative. Thank

Carly OsmanOne of the things that I've noticed since being sober is The expectation of people that I am no longer fun. So I think I've lost friendships. I think people have not invited me to things because they suddenly think that this various fun loving party person, the one who was always the last person to leave, isn't there anymore.

HelenHundred a per cent 100%, 100%. I couldn't agree with that more. And I don't know about you, but I found in my sober journey, the real ones have stayed. I've gained new ones along the way that have actually become really good friends in a short space of time. And the the drinkers, the ones that have to have fun with alcohol, seem to have just be drifted to the wayside a little bit. And it's surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, some of my, you know, I've lost some, not lost some really good friends, but I find myself, there's new group chats being set up that I'm not a part of now because I'm not fun anymore.

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenYou know, so I hear you. It's a real, it's this old stigma alcohol. You know, it's boring. You must, you know, if I have another pound for a bloke that says to me, you must be fun at parties. Fuck off, mate. You know, bring me and you'll see I'm the like life and soul of that party and I'll be the one still going at the end. I'll remember it tomorrow. I do anything... that's a bit crazy and a bit out there is because I know what I'm doing. I just want have fun. I don't need a drink to do those things. If I don't do anything totally stupid that would piss people off, it's probably because I've not had a drink and I'm more aware of what I'm doing. And it's that whole, mean, that's, if I had somebody say to me, what's your purpose now? oh what not what not what's your purpose? That's a bit of a, too that's too deep. One of the things I really want to do with the company that, you know, but what we're creating is really give everybody a space for people like you and me that want to fuck up the narrative that sober equals boring. right because for too long it's been a black and white either you don't drink or you do drink and also the middle lane drink because I've got a lot of friends I say middle lane the ones that aren't alcoholics but they don't and they don't drink all the time and I have a couple of friends that have gone can we join your community because I've only drunk twice in the last year and only had two glasses so I'm not sober so I said well yeah because we're also for people that are a hangover free but not teetotal right there's a space for these almost the waves and strays i feel like we've been the waves and strays you know we're not on a program we don't have to be hard kid can never drink because we're with this or with that we're not labeled we're just making our own choices and god forbid we're allowed to have fun along the way right so yeah

Carly OsmanHundred so kind of and think the people who have, I suppose, have drifted away, do you think in some ways you're holding up a mirror to them?

HelenHundred per percent 100% 100% because they say the sort of things that I used to say right that we always say if you don't drink all the time you're not an alcoholic if you you know just because you enjoy yourself and let your hair down doesn't you've got problem with drink true all of that is true I can go out have a few and not do it again for two weeks doesn't mean I've got problem with drink also true And so but but I've also been with those people where I've seen them do what I used to do. Like Carly drink too much or to accept excess and things would happen that would never happen in their sober life.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenYou know, I've seen couples have physical fights that I would never. I was gobsmacked. Alcohol played a part in that. Right. It wouldn't have happened. or not to my knowledge, I know these people, I'm thinking, what on earth? That was all day drinking. That was holiday environment. That was alcohol induced and it caused something. And I don't care what these people say to me. There's nowhere in the world they'd want that around them or their children in the cold light of sober day, right? And also people that, I I've done, we've all done stupid shit drunk, right? i was there I was the catalyst. I was the one that brought the party, that the nutter, the one that did the really stupid shit half the time, right? And I'm glad I did. I'm glad I had that fun. I'm glad I had it to know what I'm not missing now, all right?

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenBut I do think when I discuss this and I say this to people, so it's so, it's it's hard for them to look at that and to confront that. So they would rather just go, oh well, Because Howes was the louder one or because Howes, you know, i was the one that would sometimes do the crazy stuff. We're not like that. That's not us. We don't need to worry about what she's doing. And I'm not doing this to say everybody else has to follow suit. I'm just saying it's okay to make your own mind up and we shouldn't be judged on that. If we want to make healthier choices or conscious choices or we just decide I'm over it, I'm done, right? I'm just done. We shouldn't judge. We don't judge others for drinking. So why should we judge? should So why should they judge us when we decide not to? So, yeah.

Carly OsmanYeah. I want to dwell on something that we talked about beginning, which is the idea of fun. how How have we got to a point in society where drinking and fun have become just so deeply entangled?

HelenYeah.

Carly OsmanIt is celebration, have a drink. Oh, it's someone's birthday, have a drink. How have we got here? And how is this just the state of norm?

HelenI think it's ingrained, isn't it? It's ingrained. Even emojis, the two champagne flutes, the celebration, the champagne cork popping, the advertising, what we've been fed all this time is so to celebrate the sale of something, the house, to move in together to a house.

HelenOh, you're 18. Have your first glass of champagne. Not the most people wait till 18, but you know what i mean? It's the whole, it's ingrained into us and it's learnt behaviours. Right. Over the generation, drinking has always been not only socially acceptable, but socially expected. Right. So i think the in the the whole the fact that that's totally ingrained is where the problem stems from the expectation. And also, let's be honest, Carly, there are people that struggle with confidence. Right.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenThere's people that suffer with a bit of anxiety. And I know those people. So I find it hard to sometimes have these conversations because I know without maybe one or two drinks, they would struggle to find their voice in a social situation. And it gives them that bit of, it's called liquid courage for a reason, right? So i just think we've been conditioned as a society to do these things. You know, when we were younger, it was all about smoking. When I, mean, I'm 43. I'd say 46, but I was 47 on Monday. So I've gained the next year. Brilliant. Just what you want in your forties. But, you know, I think back to when I was younger, it was the cool thing. Everyone smoked. and Everyone was smoking behind bike sheds. It was never something I wanted to do because my parents both smoked. I hated the smell of it. But it's almost like it's cool. And it's the same with drinking. It's like today's society with the vapes and this snus stuff and all this. Do that. dode It's what kind of gets pushed on us. And then you've got to start to look at the people that are making money behind this.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenAnd where the marketing comes from and the expectant and the influencers and the influences, you know?

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenBecause at what point did anybody say being c sober is boring? Where does that fun come from?

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenBut we've been led by society from an ingrained background and perspective, especially us guys, like I say, getting a bit older, probably the generation of mystic, the Gen Zs, one in four, one in four, don't drink, you know?

Carly OsmanYeah, it's wild, isn't it? But when I did give up, I had this internalized narrative in my mind that was just like, oh, it's a loss. You're giving up something. But I really truly believe that I've gained so much more than I've lost. I've gained confidence. I've gained clarity. I've gained, just, I think, freedom from myself. And I know that sounds quite lofty, but I think my question to you is like, why, why is it still in this negative territory? But actually how do we flip the narrative? So it's much more around the celebration, the undercoupling, the, the opportunity for something else.

HelenYeah, I don't about you, Kylie, but I do feel like I was worried at the beginning. Would I lose my edge?

Carly OsmanYes.

HelenI think you worry that you do because you don't know, right? It's the uncharted territory.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenIf I don't know for you, but for me, it was. I've never gone on to this.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenWhen I went into my, I'm going to just do 100 days. So but that was how I started because I thought I wish I could do one or two.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenEveryone's got drinking, different drinking habits. Right. And I didn't drink daily and I didn't drink. I wouldn't have classed myself as an alcoholic. But when I look back, I did have a problem with alcohol to a degree because I couldn't stop at one or two.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenIf I was going to drink, I was out, out I was out, out.

Carly OsmanYes.

HelenAnd I was the life and soul. And I was fun. And nine times out of 10, because I drank, I automatically assume, you do, don't you, that you're that person because you've been drinking.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenSo you're big fun. You're on the dance floor. You're doing all these things. And I have noticed I don't dance quite as much though because I realize my moves are pretty shit and I've got two left feet, right? So, and Maybe the alcohol, I don't think I could ever probably dance that well. And the alcohol made me think I could like doing karaoke. You think you can sing when you've had a drink. When you're sober, you realise you're fucking tone deaf and you can't sing and you can't dance. So the realisation that you've got to do those things, that's one thing I think, yeah, maybe that would have would have been different if I'd have had a drink. But generally, I think we... We only recognize the party animal in us when we've had a drink because we used to go into these things and drinking. We haven't navigated them sober. And I think the initially when I did that hundred days and I stopped, i I was like, okay, I've done a hundred days now and I'll go back in and I'll try and do one or two. And I soon realized got 112 days before I had my first drink and I didn't just have the one straight off. Well, that was a nice glass of red. I'll have a bottle. I'm out now, I'm in London, I'm on my own, I've got nothing to rush home for. I'm staying in a hotel, fancy a glass of mulled wine, it's Christmas time, it's winter, so I'm gonna have do that. And all of a sudden you excess again.

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenYou're like, oh, you've had too much. And I never forget the next day after that 112 days, I've never, i mean, I've had some sessions in my time, but that I've never felt worse. like I felt, I can only describe it, as I remember going to to for a consultancy meeting, and I remember being sick in the waiting room when I was waiting to see the consultant

Carly OsmanWow.

HelenI was horrendous. I felt, I can only describe to what I can imagine being poisoned.

HelenFelt like my veins, my blood, I felt like everything was poisoned. I just felt like my whole body had to come out because I felt disgusting and I've never felt anything like it And i remember thinking, well, I need to need to get back on this sobriety journey. And I did. And, you know, like lot of people, you don't just stop and then you stop. You sometimes fluctuate and, you know, everyone finds their own way. But I guess, During that journey, and the reason, going back to your question, I mentioned that journey, is because I had to find how I was fun without alcohol. I didn't know I could be that much fun without alcohol because every time I'd been fun or done the crazy shit, it was drinking juice and it was, out with your mates, you know, shot, shot, shot, shot after you've had a couple of drinks. Not always like that. Obviously, we did the classy stuff. There was lots of classy, but then that's, and it's dangerous as well, right?

Carly OsmanBut it starts classy and then ends, always ends up like that.

HelenBecause, We dress this up. I don't know about you, but we've we've weve spoken about this. We've got different business circles. So even your business circles, you out, you're drinking wine, you know, you're being, you're drinking champagne, darling. And you're being very, you know, you're you're being very professional, but you're drinking still. You're getting equally pissed whether you're in that in scenario or whether you're out with the girls in Marbella on a bit of a bender that turns into the shots, like you just said, it all ends up that way. doesn't matter what the scenario is you're still putting the alcohol in and it's giving you some form of courage to be your alter ego i guess and I think we're all a bit scared of losing that edge we don't know if we're going to recognize this person it's almost like you grieve the person you were am I ready to let go of that person am I going to be enough I don't know about you but that was a question for me I'm always been a bit of a character and but I think that wasn't always down to alcohol and I look back but in your head the biggest and the loudest and the

HelenThe than you know the stupidest stuff you do, course you don't miss it now. But at the time, you're a bit scared that you're going to lose an edge. You're going to have to grieve a person you've spent most of your adult life being and becoming and expected by others. And that's another thing, right? What others expect of us. Doesn't matter how much we all say we don't care. There's an element. There's an element in all of us where we live up to a bit an expectation of what others expect of us.

Carly OsmanI think this process of grieving and figuring it out, i when I stopped drinking, I, in my mind, decided that all of the stuff that I used to enjoy was alcohol me. And therefore, I didn't really know how to have fun anymore. And four years, well, coming up to three years now down the line, I now know that all the stuff I used to love, I still love doing.

HelenThank you.

Carly OsmanI just don't need to be drinking it. But it was a really weird uncoupling process that I had to go away. And I was downright miserable at the beginning. I was like, oh, I'm bored. I don't know what to do with myself. This is just, it's just not something. And then I started to introduce the other things that I used to do. I go to karaoke now. I stay out till two o'clock in the morning dancing and have the best time. I am always the first one on the dance floor and the last one to leave. I'm there at the the big long dinners. That's just who I am and what I enjoy. so I think if My advice to anyone would be alcohol is a crutch. Take that away and and still just try things because you might be presently surprised.

HelenYeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. I remember I went, but I don't know how, how you found holidays when you gave up alcohol. Cause for me,

Carly OsmanOh.

HelenAs As a working mum that's always juggled motherhood, working life, 100 miles an hour, looking after others, my grandparents when they were here, God bless them. And just being always present for everyone else. When you go holiday, that's your time to shh. That first drink at the airport, was there anything?

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenIs there, I think if they even did a drink to people that do drink, where's your favourite drink? It's that airport drink, right? Who doesn't love that first airport drink?

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenAnd I remember... I was going on my journey and had quite a few trips in that particular year. And I remember navigating a couple of them and not drinking. And a couple of times that was where I'd gone, oh, you know, and it may be I did Ibiza. Ibiza's, you know, that's where you want to test yourself. And i've've I've since done it and managed to do it quite happily.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenBut that particular time, because there's a couple of things I love in life, simple things. It's like, what am I drinking? Love the sangria.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenLoved a sangria and and a paella so that was the combo and in the winter loved a mulled wine and a mince pie right they were my two little they're how ever going to give them up because I love them and sangria got the better of me and I beat the trip but I remember coming back on I went away with my boys I took my two boys it was like the last holiday they told because they're older now and they were like mum we're not kids anymore we can't always come a holiday with you we've got our own lives and I was like

Carly OsmanYeah. yeah

HelenAll doing the Kevin and Perry you know right so we went with my best friend and my two eldest well my only two assume two out to the boys to Barbados last year and this for me was a whole trip of a lifetime for them and me to be somewhere really nice together to do all these things together and we'd lost my grandparents and I wanted us to just have a bit of us time because were all very very very close and it was it was a tough time it was something to look forward to during a tough Tough year for us. And sorry, my dog just decided to run to the front door because I think he said, sorry, apologies. But yeah, so ultimately we we went to Barbados and I remember thinking, we're going to have the most incredible time, but they love a rum and we're at the home of rum, right? The chances of us all doing this again in this particular place are very slim. Why wouldn't I go and enjoy a rum? right?

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenIt's the home of rum. There's rum distillery tours. There's all these things. And I kept looking at like I was going to miss out, right?

Carly OsmanYes.

HelenSo this is a trip of a lifetime with my two boys in a really nice hotel my best friends there. I'm going to miss out on something, right? Why don't I just go and enjoy it? Now, when I got to Barbados, my date I'd restarted was end of August and we'd gone at the start of November. it was only three months in. Got to the airport, managed a non-alcoholic beer. That was fine. Got to the hotel in Barbados and they're they're so friendly. Oh, I'm punched greeting you and on the way there. And I went, I don't drink. Thanks. They gave me and a different drink. Oh, you're in Barbados. Everybody drinks. And I'm like, this is going to be an interesting two weeks, you know.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenRight. Okay. And that we arrived there about six o'clock their time. And if you've ever been over the Caribbean, it gets dark early. So i remember my boys going, mum, it's fine. You're on holiday. can have a drink with us it's sort we're in a safe place with us you know it's all right and I went I appreciate that and I might do if I want one I've done another 100 days if I want to I will and think it was 100 days it was it was yeah it was in that first September October November november so it was not not quite 100 days actually but I was leading up to him my little counter was showing me I was nearly back at those special three digits right so

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenI remember we walked through, they were having their cocktails and I was looking around and we got outside in this beautiful bar on the beach and there was a big square dance floor around like an open air restaurant and it was lovely. And we'd sat down and had some food and people were talking and chatting at the bar and there was a brilliant mocktail menu.

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenAnd I thought, okay I'm going to get a mocktail. and Whitney Houston, come on. I want to dance with somebody. No one knows me, knows I love my Whitney, right?

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenI was like, oh, Whitney's just come on. I just got up and just started dancing. And you could see the women in their seats just doing this. And I was like, come on, get up, get up. And I got all the women, literally everybody. yeah Then the men were looking. I was like, come on, all of you get up. So I literally, within... an hour of landing in that spot, had everybody in the hotel around dancing. This little old lady that worked there, she was beautiful. She was so much fun. Got her up. We were all just dancing. At the end, went to the bar and three women went to the bar and we'll have whatever she's on. And I was like, well, that'll be a mocktail then. But that could be a mocktail. And the husband's like, you don't drink. like, no, don't drink.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenLike So that moment, do you know what that did? That gave me this real, confidence that actually I was a rebel I was leading right I wasn't a sheep don't want to be a sheep I can do that and it almost know the next day that night I went through the night didn't drink next day I made a conscious decision I'll see what I want to do today and when I got to the pool and the barman said now today you're gonna have a rum punch and I went no I'll just have one of those mocktail mojitos please okay And people started like talking to me about it. And how do you do that? You know, it's great to be like that.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenAnd that whole day again, another day of no alcohol. And there was a little pub on site that was like, it was called the Lazy Sloth. Never forget it because it was a night of many parties. We ended up in there till four in the morning. Everyone doing shots with these people we'd met over there. And I was, they made me a little shots with orange juice.

Carly OsmanOh, I love that.

HelenA little bit of, can't remember what it was, po some cranberry juice on the top to make it like had my own shot.

Carly OsmanI love that.

HelenSo they were making me these shots and I was in there till four in the morning. I was like, how? And all of a sudden, the amount of people that are asking me how they don't, how don't I do it? And how do you do it? And I wish I could be like, gave me this whole new moment of, I'm a leader of in this.

Carly OsmanYeah yeah

HelenYou lot are sheep. I don't want to be a sheep. but I've never wanted to be a sheep. And I've got some real power in that. And that, and then looking at this rum distillery tour we had, we're going to go on. I was like, you know what? I want to come and remember all of this. I stopped looking at it then and this light bulb moment where I wasn't losing something. I was gaining everything. I was going to remember these things with my boys. I was going to remember the tour of Barbados with my boys. I wasn't going to go to have these few bits of rum and then carry on drinking and then forget how the night ended.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenRight? Right? And the minute I had that almost magic wand moment in my head that I wasn't losing anything, I was gaining everything, I knew. at that point, I was going to get through the entire holiday without even wanting alcohol, got a bit sick of the mocktails and the lovely barman, although anybody that drinks alcohol-free knows that Bex Blue is the worst non-alcoholic beer in the world. But bless them, they'd gone to it wherever they go to and they'd bought Bex Blue to put behind for me because I got sick of it.

Carly OsmanOh, bless.

HelenAnd I tried a few of those. that was me done then that was my whole turning I mean they say never say never if you're an alcoholic they always say in the steps program you can never say you take one day at time but I was never in that program I just did it the way that I thought I needed to do it and I honestly I'll never say never but I don't feel like after that holiday and getting through all of that and getting back I've just been on a you know a mission really

Carly OsmanYeah. I love it.

HelenSorry, mean that's a long answer to your very quick question, but I hope that makes a bit sense.

Carly OsmanThat makes perfect sense. and I want to step change slightly and talk about relationships and alcohol.

HelenYeah.

Carly OsmanAs part of the brilliant business you're building, relationships and connection are part of it.

HelenYeah

Carly OsmanI want to throw something out into the world where I think a lot of people have sex drunk and intimacy For a lot of people, and I have been one of these people in the past, where I only feel sexy if I've had a few. I only feel good about myself when I'm a few drinks in. I'm not the only one, am I? Please make me feel slightly better about this. And we don't talk about this, but also what changes with intimacy and being sober?

HelenYeah, that's a great question because you're so right. And i yeah, everything. yeah You're not alone, firstly. i mean, i know so many people, including myself. And I have to, I've had to pre-warn my sons that are 22 and 28 that I have these conversations now and it might come up to them because they're like, for fuck's sake, mum, what she mentioned this time, you know? And it's like, But, yeah you know, you're growing up now, you can understand. But we've all done it. We've gone out. We've maybe been on a date. We've seen online they look like a good eight, maybe a nine if we're really lucky. We get there and you end up looking at them and thinking, God, they're a five or six at best. And you drink and until the beer goggles tell you they're back to a seven, right? And the amount of people that I know, and and everyone's done it, they've they've maybe ended up having sex with said person and woken up in the morning and looking over and going, oh my God. And the amount of men that I know that say that, and they, they kind of joke about it and it becomes a bit of a meme, which society laughs at. We laugh at, oh God, should have seen her in the morning. God went to bed and she looked like this, woke up and she looked like that, you know, and we do it both ways.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenRight. And we've, we've all done it and that's because alcohol masks it. And we've all made some pretty poor judgment cause in relationships and connections and things we think we shouldn't, shouldn't, or what makes it okay to do And so I think there's that element of drinking and how it, impacts really negatively when you look at the aftermath it's negative because at the time like everything with alcohol it feels great in the morning those emotions that come especially if you've been intimate with somebody they can leave you feeling really shit especially if you've had so much al alcohol you can't remember certain parts and it's scary the amount of women that reach out to me and tell me they can't remember something they've done and it's you know it's worrying right but going back to the other part you said I can so relate to that because

Carly OsmanWell.

HelenI remember my first, well, there's first couple of times i had to get naked sober, you know, it's terrifying, right?

Carly OsmanWere

HelenYou just think I've said, I've said it once before, but I remember dating this guy and we'd been out a few times and it was like, well, okay, it's natural that by this point, there's a connection. There's some chemistry. quite fancy him. I do fancy him. It's mutual. there suggestion we have a weekend away and we go somewhere and okay, sounds great. We get there and the whole bath is in a lovely little place right at the end of the bedroom and it's like, that's really nice. Until he suggests having a bath. And normally the old me after a couple of glasses would have get it all off, you know, chuck yourself around the chandeliers, show them that you own the place and that you're all Larger than life. And because those couple of glasses of wine, they must the insecurities, right? You feel like a Victoria's Secret model when you've had those.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenAnd even then, i mean, haven't been one of the lads for a lot of my life as well and having a lot of male friends. The most attractive thing to anybody generally from I've found is confidence, right?

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenSo even when you're not feeling confident, just portray it because that's what's attractive to them. But the drink helps you portray that, you exude that confidence. And I remember just stood there thinking, this guy lives in the gym. I haven't seen him naked, but i felt his arms. He's pretty strong. He's going to look great out of his kit. And he's a few years younger than me. And there's me. Cellulite, wobbly bits, tits not where they should be any anymore.

Carly OsmanYeah. Yeah.

HelenYou know, thinking, oh shit, the lighting's not right. The angles aren't right. How am I going to get in that bath without the excess bit of my tummy showing? Oh God, I'll tell you what, let's fill up with lots of bubbles while I'm getting ready. And all of a sudden you're overthinking everything because the alcohol is not masking your thought process, which at the beginning bloody scary, right?

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenIt's really scary. Now I look back, I would not have it any other way, but that takes time. You have to find that confidence, right? And you have to own it. You have to own it. There's nothing like sober confidence. When you can own it, it's actually a superpower.

Carly OsmanSo how do I get that confidence?

HelenThat's a good question. If I could answer that in one way, I'd bottle it and sell it. Everybody asks me that. But I always think it's about finding joy in yourself, looking in the mirror and telling yourself what you love about you. And not just telling yourself, but believing it, right? Because we can all sit there and reel off a hundred things about ourselves that we don't like. Like, oh, wish I had that. Wish it was like this. Wish I could have... Wish my legs were six inches longer. Wish... Everybody can find fault, right? But actually... We're only here once and our time in the grand scheme of things is very short and nobody knows when tomorrow's tomorrow's going to be the last tomorrow, right? Nobody knows that. And if we keep spending all of that time worrying about what we haven't got rather than what we have got. And always say if you find it hard, just find three things. Three things in yourself and your personality and in your looks that you like about yourself, right? Three things that if you can't find a plethora of them, find just a few, right? And Own it. Make them your things. Make them your superpowers and bask in those. So I've never liked my legs. used to kickbox for years. I played football for years. always had really chunky legs. Never used to find my boobs until I got a bit older and I thought, oh they're not as plump as they used to be. think, well, I like my hands, but they're not always the most noticeable. i like my feet. then you know And you start questioning them, but then you start to look at it and you... You're sober energy when you're getting naked and you start to realise bits about you that you do like. And listen, when somebody tells you they find you beautiful, they mean it. Took me years to believe that.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenYou just want to get in my knickers. That's why you're telling me all this. Or you just want a quick one. Or you just want this. But actually, when something is heartfelt in a connection, they genuinely mean it. If they're looking at you and they think you're beautiful and you're sexy and you're all these things, believe it. Don't question it. own it, own that shit, bottle it, put a bow on it and stroll around that bedroom knowing that you're bloody beautiful and actually we are all different, as a woman you probably get this as well right Carly, you look at men, your type of man might be different to mine or the girl next to you, you might like somebody that's really lean, I like somebody that sometimes is a little bit more meat or some people like tall men, short men,

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenSome don't like that whole muscly physique. You know, I've been out with guys that are ripped upon, ripped upon, ripped and they shave their legs and I get into bed and I'm like, oh my God, he's got smoother legs than me. Right? So you don't always like that. But men have got their own insecurities. They think we like that whole men's health fitness thing.

Carly OsmanYeah

HelenRight? And I think we need to reverse psychology that on ourselves.

Carly OsmanYeah.

HelenBecause actually we spend so much time not appreciate what we've actually got and what we bring to the table I just think to practice self-love because sober or drunk if you can practice some self-love and even if you just find three things about yourself that you can tell yourself you love every single day you'll start to grow them i think I started with two and now I just own it all I'm like well up yeah my legs aren't what I want them to be but they're mine and so yeah I just think that I think if we can start to practice and I think everybody should do that whether do or don't drink but

Carly OsmanI love that. I love that.

HelenThe So yeah, that's that's my little bit of advice.

Carly OsmanThank you, Helen. That was amazing.

HelenThanks.